" I didn't catch much reference to policy, economics or any sort of active attempt to alter conditions at all really in the proposals. Must be nice not to be a realist..."

That's kind of a ridiculous comment, like blaming a plumber for not being an electrician.

Don't perpetuate anti-intellectualism until you've dipped.

tV

Oh -- you should also note these are panel _outlines_. And these people are interested in these texts, in understanding them & critiquing them. Some might offer a direct link to policy--especially the Deleuzians and Foucauldians, if they show up in force with analyses of power and networks--but the point here is to engage in debates over, first and foremost, what the hell we are talking about. Don't take primary texts as given: half the battle is mapping the terrain. In fact, Clausewitz would say that IS the battle. Ditto with Lao Tse.

On the other hand, I left an English Department for precisely these reasons. But Comp. Lit. in the US is a code-word for some of the most rigorous Leftist critiques of government, power, policy, race, gender, economics. CompLit progs are some of the hardest to get into in the country-- like Columbia. Know three or four languages well enough to translate them? You _might_ get in, _might_ work with Spivak.

;p

tV

errr, aren't economists and political scientists intellectuals too?

I'm not quite sure the plumber/electrician analogy is relevant. Its more like a sewer planner/plumber thing. If the sewer planner doesn't understand how plumbing works his shit's going to stink, no matter how much the other sewer planners love his style.

Course some comparative lit people probably couldn't care less about the problems of the world, which is fine, I just treat them the way I treat baseball, its great entertainment when you've got free time and beer... And they both take great talent to do professionally, no doubt.

But if its about actually transforming the world, I think its crucial that mechanisms for actualizing exist. Can't stay in the virtual forever. Theory is key, mapping the terrain is key. But when you start making maps out of other maps rather then from the terrain itself then potential to get lost increases dramatically. And it sure seems like a lot of people are more concerned with _the maps_ then with the actual _mapping_ ...

But yeah I'll try and check out the conference, perhaps my mind will change...

"when you start making maps out of other maps rather then from the terrain itself then potential to get lost increases dramatically. And it sure seems like a lot of people are more concerned with the maps then with the actual mapping ..."

Must be nice to be a realist ... But what exactly is the relationship between maps and territories? And how does a map get made without mapping?

As for theory in general - well, policy and economics require theoretical grounding as much as any other discipline. It sounds like you have something against the humanities ...

Abe - this cultural studies conference may be more to your liking:

http://www.crossroads2004.org/

And you may want to consider submitting a proposal of your own - if accepted, it will be a sure way to push an agenda more in synch with your interests and values.

"Must be nice to be a realist..."

but of course ;)

"But what exactly is the relationship between maps and territories?"

That sounds like a book waiting to be written to me. Or perhaps its just waiting to be read... But in an off the cuff sense I'd say the map provides a model for the theoretical reconstruction of the territory. But when you have maps made of maps you get a model for the reconstruction of the first map, but that appears to be a model of the original territory. As this process continues, the probability of misrepresenting the original territory increases dramatically.

"And how does a map get made without mapping?"
I guess that depends on the definition of mapping, I was using it to refer to the act of mapping reality itself. In which case, making a map of a map would not actually an act of mapping. Perhaps not the best definition. In any case I'd make a distinction between say tracing, photocopying or otherwise building off an existing map and the act of creating a map of the actual territory itself.

"As for theory in general - well, policy and economics require theoretical grounding as much as any other discipline. It sounds like you have something against the humanities ..."

perhaps... I must say if I can remember through all the visuals I think I did major in a humanity of sorts. But that was then...

Big thanks for the link btw, will consider a paper. More in the works on the "push an agenda" bit...

The problem is, today, "what is the territory?"

Think about it: what the HELL is (the) "territory"?

NOT "unrealistically." I mean completely pragmatically. The Net? The wires? The earth? From where does one view it? A God's eye view? What perspective is this? From a culture? What's a culture? From a mountain? Is information a territory? But how is that "real?" How about a class--is that a territory, a "working class"? A race? A gender--are they territories? Where did the concept of "territory" come from? And the very idea of mapping? Colonialism? Conquest? Australian Aboriginals didn't think territory--they thought lines; the Chinese thought in terms of shifting packs; the Pacific NorthWest First Nations thought in terms of rotating camps; the Hawaiian Polynesians thought in terms of _seasons_ .. no territories, but oceans and islands. Hakim Bey talks of _pirate utopias_. Beyond the territory: another map? Or another territory, or something not related to this at all? What IS behind territory? What gives us the idea of thinking of _earth_ in such a manner? Is there a connection here to property, the proper, possession, to have, to want, to control, to master?

These are all questions OF mapping -- perhaps they won't help the current problem with US Imperialism, of course not, but they just might, just might, hold a grain that changes our evolutionary mutant consciousness over the next thousand years. If we live that long.

A good scholar thinks immanently ancient, which is to say, acts with ancient immanence.

tV

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